[Population: One] <A HREF="http://popone.innocence.com/ar

[bryant]

There's a pantheon in Boston sports, with a clearly defined roster: Bill Russell, Bobby Orr, Larry Bird, and Ted Williams are the definites. People argue for Carl Yastrzemski, and it's hard to object to that one. It's players who were the best of the best and who spent their careers with a Boston sports team. Championships matter, but Williams and Yaz are in the club, and they never won one -- so maybe things like being the only player ever to win two Triple Crowns, or being part of the 1969 Impossible Dream season, maybe those matter too.

Tom Brady's got a provisional invitation. He needs to spend a few more years with the Patriots, which he'll do. He doesn't really need to win any more titles, not that we'd mind. He needs to keep on being as good as he is. Those outside Boston might never see him as the best quarterback of the era. Us? We know what's going on. If his skills hold up without Charlie Weis calling plays, it's gonna be pretty clear.

So, though. What about the 2004 World Champion Boston Red Sox? Anyone there?

Schilling isn't. He's not going to pitch in Boston for more than four years, and I'd honestly be surprised if he gets more than three given his ankle woes. He ended his career prematurely for us, and he never is anything else in this town but a hero. There is no doubt of what he meant. Pantheon, though -- that's a different thing. Maybe if he retires here? Yeah, if he becomes part of the social fabric of the city, I could see it. Bill Russell goes to Celtics games still. I don't think Schilling's gonna do that, though.

Manny Ramirez qualifies on skill. Have you noticed how consistently good this guy is? He costs a fortune, but he's worth a fair chunk of it. If he sticks with Boston for the rest of his career, and keeps being the friendly guy he became last year, he probably makes it in. Probably. Alas, Theo Epstein would love to get out from under his salary. And someone else will pay his demands when he hits free agency in, um, 2008? It's a shame, though; he's a stupendous player and it's fun watching him hit. Frustrating, but fun.

Now. The fun one. I say Pedro's in the pantheon.

Yeah, he's an unpleasant asshole. So was Ted Williams. He was also arguably the best pitcher in the world for most of the time he was in Boston. His 2000 season was the kind of thing that is simply implausible -- look at the difference between his stats and his competition. His SO/W ratio was literally half again that of the next best starting pitcher that year. Insane. What he did in 1999, against Cleveland, in the ALDS? That thing where he came into a tie game in the fourth inning, injured, and shut Cleveland down -- the best bats in the AL -- for six straight innings? It gets no more epic than that.

And sure, the 2004 season, he wasn't the ace. Still. The Red Sox don't win that World Series if Pedro didn't pitch for them that season.

Probably I get no agreement on this from anyone. I don't care. Pedro Martinez was one of the four or five best athletes to ply their trade in Boston; we should recognize him for precisely that thing.

Comments

[mgrasso.livejournal.com]

If you include Pedro, then you must include Roger, and I wouldn't include either of them.

[bryant]

I disagree. Roger had a better career, but Pedro was clearly the better single season pitcher by a fair margin. Also, Pedro did not pitch for the Yankees.

[kniedzw.livejournal.com]

I'm with Mike here. Roger bitched about having to play for Boston for years, but he is perhaps the best single pitcher we've ever had. If you're going to add Pedro, you can't ignore Roger.

...and Yankee or not, the fans forgave him. They applauded when he stepped out on Fenway's green.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

What, no Cam Neely?

[peaseblossom.livejournal.com]

And Ray Bourque!

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Ha, how could i forget Ray-Ray? Maybe he doesn't count because he left to go to the Avalanche to win?

[peaseblossom.livejournal.com]

No, because he deserved that Stanley Cup and it's not his fault we couldn't give it to him.

[clauclauclaudia]

Yeah, everybody said it at the time. "We don't begrudge him the cup. He's still ours."

[bryant]

Bourque is so very close. On any given Sunday, I rank him among them.

[ratmmjess.livejournal.com]

I think fan affection should count as...if not a qualifier, than at least another variable to be taken into the equation.

Because of that, Clemens can -never- be included. I think Pedro has to be, simply because, for those years when he had his best stuff, he was Must See Sports.

Another name for consideration: Big Papi. He has to spend more time here, but is there a Sox fan alive who does not feel a warm rush of the fuzzies just thinking about what he's meant to the team?

[kniedzw.livejournal.com]

See, I'm waffling. I grew up on Clemens, Jim Rice, Wade Boggs, Bill Buckner, Bob Stanley, Oil Can Boyd, Dwight Evans, Mike Greenwell, Spike Owen, Ellis Burks, Tony Pena, and Don Baylor. Clemens was an ass, and Boggs wore the pinstripes for even longer than Roger, but they aren't names I can just drop from consideration. Particularly Clemens and Boggs.

Winning the World Series is huge, yes. It might earn you a spot in the Pantheon, but Yaz never won the Series. Neither did Williams. ...and Williams was as big an ass as Clemens.

I can't just ignore Boggs and Clemens. They were shining spots in otherwise dark times, even if Boggs couldn't hit in the clutch and both of them ended up in New York.

[ratmmjess.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I can't place Boggs, relatively, above McHale--and I don't think McHale is Pantheon. Hall of Fame, great, yes, yes. But not Pantheon, which has to be in the top tier of consideration, the most rarefied air of all.

I think Clemens, while he was here, was in consideration for the Pantheon. But his departure and everything afterwards removed him from it.

[jeregenest.livejournal.com]

What about Bill Rodgers?

[carneggy.livejournal.com]

The issue with Pedro: he's pitched a lot of years (including one excellent year - a lot of people forget he won a Cy Young as a freakin' Expo on a terrible squad) for other teams - yeah, he's important, and great, but he's not really a 'spent his career on a Boston sports team' guy as you defined it - ESPECIALLY if he plays for a couple more years elsewhere, putting him at less than half his career as a Red Sox.

Other thoughts:

I know some people who'd add Auerbach, even though he wasn't a player.

I've heard Havlicek mentioned in such company as well.

And while not a team-sport guy, Rocky Marciano is up there as far as Boston sports icons for an older crowd.

[kniedzw.livejournal.com]

Mmm... Havlicek. There's one I had completely spaced on.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Havlicek, how about Bob Cousy?

[bryant]

Great, but not Pantheon.

Hm. I think it may also be the case that only one player from a team gets the place of honor. It's really, really rare that two players on a single team are both of equal skill and both head and shoulders above the rest. I love Cousy, but I think Russell was the better player.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Oh, no doubt.

[sebastian-tombs.livejournal.com]

Havlicek - good catch, he should definitely be there.

Not so much McHale though

[sebastian-tombs.livejournal.com]

The thing I hate most having moved to New England a little more than a decade before is that by what I think you mean, Boggs and Roger don't belong on the list.

And they should, but Boston sports fans in general suck. They have vilified Roger, and to a lesser extent, Boggs (at least people have forgotten him, but they have forgotten him completely, for no good reason).

Was Pedro here long enough to qualify? Because, except for coming in in relief against Cleveland having been injured, I don't see how he ranks any higher than Roger. But I don't have the built up bile that Boston has for Clemens, and I just don't understand it.